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28 Comments

Where do you guys go for advice? #ask-ih

Where do you guys go for advice? #ask-ih

Hey guys - I'm at a bit of a fork in the road with my business - getting advice on forums is helpful, though I'm at the point where I'd benefit from some time with someone that has gone through a similar journey, and to get some guidance on how to move through that.

Incubators appear to be great for this, though for those of us in the 'startups for the rest of us' crowd (shoutout to @robwalling and @MikeTaber), with kids, mortgage and commitments etc (but happy to invest financially in good advice) where is the best way to seak a bit of guidance?

EDIT: A couple of helpful comments below pointing out that I should add a few more details. I'll try to be brief.

TLDR: I'm looking for assistance in trying to work out if I should try to grow my SAAS product with modest sales, or to work on something else instead.

I currently have a product that provides market intelligence about an industry here in the UK. To be clear, the platform helps my clients to understand who is successful in the industry, where they are successful, and the kind of clients their competitors are working with etc.

This industry is quite small, and we charge a lot, £2500 for an annual license per company. The market is also in short term decline, though this is likely to change over the coming months.

We have a small number of clients - enough to mean that my wife doesn't need to take up a part-time job, but not enough for it to meet my objectives of running a small, successful agency that builds, markets and runs SAAS applications.

We release some of our stuff for free, which is taken up eagerly, and gets us some free publicity - to the point where I'm certain almost everyone in the industry knows who we are. However, we haven't been able to convert this into success for the company. I think part of the reason for this is the profile of the market. There are roughly 500 potential clients. The top 5 are internationally known companies, that have teams of people providing what we provide. They don't need us. Then there are 20-30 companies that are relatively successful, though haven't yet built a team to do what we do. We've had one client build an analytics team, and they were able to build internal tools. We lost them as a customer. Then there are the smaller firms that don't have the resources or knowledge to be able to generate ROI from the insights.

I don't know whether to begin the process of finding something else to build, and I'm looking for some guidance on how best to proceed - I'm consulting right now, a few days a week - that side of the business is good.

For the first time in my career, I'm unsure of where to turn. To be quite frank, it's embarrassing not knowing what to do, and I'm struggling to make a key decision. I don't know whether to try to grow the business that we currently have, in a small and challenging market, or to look to other markets and other products to see what we can do.

on February 19, 2019
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      Ah, thank you - definitely going to check them out. Have you used either?

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    My first advice would be to ask a question with useful details, because you've given us nothing to go on here at all. Advice about what? The key to getting value out of advice is to ask good questions!

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      Good point - I appreciate your candor!

      I've added a bit of a wall of text above, which I appreciate may have swung me from one extreme to the other, so I've popped the TLDR below.

      TLDR: I'm looking for assistance in trying to work out if I should try to grow my SAAS product with modest sales in a sub-optimal market, or to work begin the process of finding something else to work on.

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        It sounds like you know the answer to your question, to be honest. If it's really just 20-30 potential customers who will then phase out as they get bigger, you don't have a SaaS, you have a consulting service, and probably not one that will survive long-term.

        Unless:
        You can downscale your offering to other companies
        You can expand countries
        You can switch to another type of more applicable intelligence
        You can get the other 465 customers you said were too small to somehow level up to find it useful

        Those are your only options, there aren't any other ways to grow beyond 30 customers. Even so, 465 customers at 2500 pounds a year is only 1,165,000 pounds, which while yes a very good income for a team of 3-6, awfully small as a limit for a SaaS in general in a wildly precarious market where your customers actually will replace you and you know it because they've done it.

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          Trees, meet the woods!
          You've provided an insight that we have missed by being so involved with the product.
          We're having a good long chat this weekend, and I expect that we'll put the business into maintenance mode, ride out the current contracts and then close it down.
          Genuinely appreciate the cold hard perspective here Amy!

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            Glad I could help!

  2. 2

    Hi David,

    What kind of advice are you looking for? (or put another way, what are your current challenges?)

    Also, what 'stage' is your business at?

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      Hi Louis - thanks for taking an interest. In terms of revenue, very early stages - we do around £12,000 ($15,500) a year in sales at the moment. Costs are roughly 30% of that.

      I actually started the work on the project back in 2015, though only started selling a product in the summer of 2017 - the site is well known, though the industry is a challenge.

      The problem is looking at whether to stick with it to try and grow it, or to move on to something new.

      I've added quite a few details to my original post if that would be helpful.

      1. 1

        Ok great.

        I'm still not quite hearing a solid question.

        Are you unsure if you want to keep working on the project?

        Or perhaps you're unsure if it's worth working on the project? (Given the market and or your goals)

        Or have you already given up on (growing) the project and are having difficulty moving on and building a new business/working out what to do next?

        I'm feeling a bit of all three from you, but I think it's worth taking a moment (or even longer) to make sure you know exactly which of those stages applies best to you right now...

  3. 2

    I find extremely useful Derek Sivers's articles. Mostly everything is covered there based in god knows how many books the man has read. Sometimes, I look for specific advice and opinions. In those cases Reddit, Medium comments to good articles or forums just like these provide great feedback.

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      Hi @juanseb - thanks for stopping by.

      I love Derek Sivers! I came across his work in a Tim Ferris book - pretty much convinced me to quit my job and take up consulting.

      Being completely honest though, a problem of mine is that I tend to consume far too much content, which can sometimes over complicate things for me. I'm looking to make things a little simpler, and I was thinking that talking it through with someone that has gone on this journey before could help. Have you ever tried anything like that?

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        I can relate totally with that. At some point, my tendency to procrastination was really worrying. It end up being a subproblem being the main problem that I wasn't clear about what to do and how to do certain things.

        One day I decided to take it out and went to a local library with just one pen and plenty of papers, and then I started to make myself questions in order to shed some light to my problems. Things like:

        • What is keeping my right now to reach my goal?
        • Which processes need clarification for me to do them better?
        • Is the lack of clarity at some point stopping me? Which Points?

        Things like that.

        It was therapeutic. And after that I knew what I had to do.

        Right now I do that on weekly basis.

        About the media consumption, I had to implement full measures: I allocated hours for that, and the rest of the time it was strictly forbidden. If I came across something interesting I'd send it to bookmarks and then read it.

        Try to reduce Social Media consumption to minimum if not a full detox for a time. They are de biggest productivity killers.

        And try to have some honest accountability with a partner or someone like you.

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          I really like the way that you think, following on here!
          Social media has been a bit of a battle lately - I did a bit of a retreat to Austin, and completely de-teched and it was wonderful. Here in the UK, addiction to news is becoming a really big problem with the madness of Brexit going on - though I'm coming to the conclusion that you should only really engage with issues that you can change. As an example, it would be 100X more beneficial to contribute financially to a cause, rather than consuming content, and applying problem-solving 'juices' to that, rather than growing a business.
          Another problem with consuming a hell of a lot of content is that you can become relatively knowledgeable in quite a lot of areas. I imagine this is the case for all Indie Hackers. With a great chef, for example, they have a good constraint. They can show a hell of a lot of flair, and business creativity to what they do, but ultimately know that they are going to produce and sell the best food that they can. In this space, there are literally tens of thousands of things we could be doing, and without resolute focus, it can become tricky to nail down what to do and stick to it.
          I think your point about not consuming media is a big one in winning that battle.

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            Here in Spain is kind of the same with this madness about Catalonia

            You reminded my about a chapter of The 4-hour workweek called 'The Low-Information Diet: Cultivating Selective Ignorance' which should be a mantra nowadays.

            We are following each other now ;)

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    Somehow I missed this post. A lot of good suggestions here so I won't rehash anything. I'm happy to be a sounding board over Skype or zoom if it helps.

    Since you've already decided to wind things down, I'll suggest the following:
    -Think about whether you are missing any obvious adjacent markets or use-cases for your service that could grow the potential customer pool.
    -Explore the possibility of selling the project through a broker or project site.

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    so one solution might be Gocatalant. hire a bunch of MBAs there

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    One thing you can do that your customers can’t do for themselves is provide an industry data-aggregation/benchmarking service based on non-public information. Perhaps you can persuade a number of players to contribute non-public data (and a fee) in return for receiving reports comparing their individual performance against an aggregated set of competitors. If you have to contribute to get a report, there is even a sort of virality built in, assuming the data is useful.

    If nothing else, this keeps your relationship with customers who have “outgrown” your standard product, and builds on your reputation.

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      Creative idea - I like it a lot.

      We're slowly coming to the conclusion that we're going to begin to wind things down, but we do appreciate the input.

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    You can try https://foundertherapy.co/ and they have a service called FounderHours. I personally have not used them but I've met one of the cofounders and he seems legit. If you speak with Brian, you can tell Minsok sent you.

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    Don't listen to accountants. They are a skill from the last century, and will be replaced by bots soon.

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    Listen to the podcasts, watch the youtube videos. https://1m1m.sramanamitra.com/free-public-roundtables/

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    Your network, local meetups, conferences, Twitter sometimes (be smart with hashtags). To grow your network start at places like IndieHackers, Spectrum.chat, probably LinkedIn and Facebook groups.

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      I hadn't heard of spectrum, will check them out - thanks for the heads up.

      In person meetups is something that I definitely need to look into. I visited Austin recently, and my home town has such a poor tech scene in comparison, though it is growing at least.

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    I would advise speaking to a business advisor (intuit calls them "proadvisors") and try to get a good road map. Actually, I have a road map here:
    https://quickbooks.intuit.com/r/new-businesses/

    Listing for Xero Bookkeepers and Accountants: https://www.xero.com/us/advisors/
    Listing for QuickBooks ProAdvisors:https://quickbooks.intuit.com/r/new-businesses/

    Accountants speak the language of business. Best to have an interpreter - they give more than financial advice.

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      True - a good friend of mine is an accountant - I tend to find his focus is on companies that have already reached a certain amount of success though - I wouldn't say that we're there yet!

  12. 1

    I have a network of mentors I talk to. Some I pay for their time, others are friends who have relevant experience. I've always found it worthwhile to cultivate advisors.

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      Good point - I think building a network of like-minded people would be a good first step.