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12 Comments

Marketers: Stop complaining and Start building a product

The day where marketers and devs are not at war may never come, but let’s at least take one weapon out of their arsenal: “You guys can’t/don’t/won’t/haven’t built anything!”

I will not go into a knee-jerk argument that building a website, marketing campaign, or brand strategy is every bit as important as building a product for an idea to succeed.

Because that misses the point.

😡Dev’s are angry at us marketers because we😡

  • don’t build products or solutions (what they feel is the core reason for existing as a dev)
  • sell poorly (shilling)
  • yap without value (more shilling)
  • pretend we have all the answers and it looks like smoke and mirrors to them
  • (often) have pricing that isn’t super straightforward (smells fishy to them)

🙄 And of course we’re irritated that they “just don’t get it” 🙄

  • the fact that no 2 businesses’ marketing is ever truly the same, so trial and error is a feature, not a bug
  • there are no guarantees in marketing because it’s science and art
  • that great marketing is based on great communication (which they often lack)
  • the time and skill required to setup, build, and iterate on a marketing strategy
  • that some things are rooted in a gut instinct and are hard to quantify with hard numbers - like choosing a great name

😖 And to cap it off, we have no (or very little) common vocabulary😖
And nobody’s about to write a dev-to-marketing dictionary (although someone really probably should).

Marketing is rooted in understanding the customer. Yet for many of us we have been dismissed by the Devs and we, in turn, have thrown up our hands at ever being understood by them.

We should seek to understand instead of being understood.
Show instead of tell by building a product, and join them instead of fighting them in the comments.

You will:

  • gain a community as you join builder groups
  • understand the experience of building a product from end to end
  • build credibility in and out of the industry because you’ve actually done that, not just planned or supported that
  • think in terms of the user more clearly than ever before
  • understand PLG from the inside out - and by extension PLM
  • Find it easier to explain things to devs
  • (if you build your product yourself vs outsourcing the actual build) learn new tools
  • get out of your comfort zone - I won’t write a treatise on why this helps you brain, mood, longevity, or otherwise, but it will definitely improve your ability to think strategically for your own company, not to mention you as a human

Use the tools that you’ve got and start by fixing your own problems.
That workflow that kicks ass → turn it into a SaaS! 🚀🙌🏾

✨🧝🏾‍♀️ And shine with the skills that makes us marketing and creative types straight up magic to begin with;

  • our ability to use practically any tool (build it in no-code!)
  • our big picture + immediate detail thinking
  • our ability to talk to people easily and get feedback
  • our knack for communication and copy to tell a story wherever we show up - website, product, email, you name it
  • those wacky marketing ideas you’ve always wanted to try and are never going to get green-lit in the office. Here’s your chance to play in the sandbox (haha, dev lingo!)

Blow them away with your product and by being open with the process and you can earn their respect along the way.

I’m a marketer who’s always wanted to own their own company (and now does as the day job, lucky, lucky me!) and has a habit of building things for the fun of it. I quickly realized once I jumped into the IH world in November (at the same time I started my agency) that my building experience set me apart and I decided to lean into it to grow my company - and my confidence.

I’m doing it with:

It’s dramatically changed my outlook on how to build a company. It’s gotten me to a salary in <3 months of owning the agency. And building a new product/tool/resource brings me joy much the same way building a brand identity does.

Not to mention it’s transformed the way I approach marketing for my SaaS clients. 😱

In just about every meeting I have (and I do free office hours instead of sales calls now!) the founder I’m speaking with confides how great it is to speak with someone who gets it. Their guard comes down. We both know we’re on the same page even though I can’t write a single line of code and they don’t know how to write head-turning copy.

Yes - there will be devs who are just plain rude and disrespectful no matter what we build, say, or do.

Who arrogantly believe that since they’ve encountered a few bad marketers or understand the fundamentals of a single channel that the entire industry is bogus and a waste of time, energy, and money.

Who, in ignorance, do not realize that their success “without marketing” was really due to “marketing that wasn’t paid ads”.

That level of hubris is true in every profession. And us marketers and creatives are far from immune to having those in our ranks who rankle our last nerve with the blinders of pride.

They aren’t the one you (should) be working to please. And the more lovely, kind, gracious devs I speak with the more I realize the obnoxious devs are the exception, not the rule.

Join the adventure, make friends, AND make money + build your existing business/career? That’s the work-life-side project balance I want.

You might even find something new that sparks a fire. 🔥🚀💃🏾

Dev, Marketers, Makers-at-large - what do y’all think about this approach? 👇

on May 12, 2022
  1. 6

    I think what you listed about "devs being angry at marketers" applies more to salespeople than marketers. There's a similar tension between marketers and salespeople as well :)

    I think that at the end of the day this "gap" can be bridged if everyone tries to be a founder. Both the devs and the founder will get closer to their users and understand that
    ,at the the of the day, it's all about them.

    1. 2

      Very true!

      Many of the marketers I see on IH (and myself as well) are self-employed, so we're marketing and sales and I easily see us falling into this bucket.

      Founding and talking with users really does solve all the problems. :)

  2. 2

    The biggest issue with trust, is there are way too many " wanna bee marketers" And there are a few who have success in only one or two channels. When there is one or two channels, most often theses do not match the founders product value proposition. I strongly believe marketing folks CANNOT help founders UNTIL the founders have discovered one or two channels that show progress. Once discovered, the founder should hire marketing help where the prior success matches the correct channel. .... And SEO does not work with customers who are not active searching on search engines. In the SMB sectors, many customers do not use the internet like tech folks. But do respond to cold outreach by email. And do respond to zoom demos. Also viral loops are the secret sauce. Keeping in mind referral marketing is fake when the customer base is small. Viral loops are a result of the organic business model, and many do not have that DNA. DEV folks make the mistake building products that solve problems, without any knowledge how to discover those rare business model solutions that have viral loops in the DNA.

    1. 1

      Hi Gates!

      Wow, lots of great points.

      most often theses do not match the founders product value proposition.

      I 100% agree with you - if you're not matching value prop than you're doing marketing wrong! Personally that's why I believe in building a clear messaging map before you start on marketing. Otherwise you don't know what channels would owrk best or what you're saying clearly.

      I strongly believe marketing folks CANNOT help founders UNTIL the founders have discovered one or two channels that show progress.

      The issue here is that if the founder doesn't know the best marketing channels - or how to craft marketing that works for the right channel - they still won't succeed. That's where a marketing person who does choose channels based on value prop + target audience can shine even before the founder has figured it out.

      I've seen plenty of founders write off or burn their best channel - and it was because of a lack of experience, not necessarily the channel.

      But do respond to cold outreach by email. And do respond to zoom demos.
      Hell yeah. Cold outreach (by email, LI, Twitter DM, Reddit DM, carrier pigeon, ...) is da bomb

      Also viral loops are the secret sauce. Keeping in mind referral marketing is fake when the customer base is small.

      IMO Viral loops fall under community marketing > referral marketing, because agreed, small customer bases = hard referral loops. That perspective broadens the chance for virality beyond just customers/users.

      Look at Logsnag by Shayan - people love sharing the product screenshots because they're beautiful and fit into the users build in public journeys. That's the best kind of virality loop - where you product is easily shareable as it solves the problem and/or makes the customer look better.

      DEV folks make the mistake building products that solve problems, without any knowledge how to discover those rare business model solutions that have viral loops in the DNA.

      Oooh, there are SO MANY ways to build in viral loops - it's not a rare bird kind of thing, it's just often not implemented well. Referral programs are what most people think of but I think that's because of Harry's success with it, NOT because it's what works best for most companies.

      on viral loops what works best is problem solving + surprise & delight the customer + make it easy to share the "ah ha!" moment. THAT is what creates a viral loop!

      -> Thanks for the idea for my next IH post!

      1. 1

        Yes I believe viral loops are rare birds. Prove me wrong. ( and I am not talking about a 3% customer acquisition monthly)

        1. 1

          Challenge accepted. :)

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            Great - My guidelines for a TRUE Viral loop is a 300% logarithmic customer acquisition per happy paying user. Meaning, once a happy user reaches month three, they bring me 3 new customers a month. Not some 3% referral model. (remember a email referral is not a customer , only a lead)

  3. 2

    I think you make a really good point. But if you're looking for a commonality between devs and marketers:

    "Marketing is rooted in understanding the customer." - this applies to devs too. If you plan to build a product people will actually use, you have to understand how and why people are going to use it. Not just so you can market it correctly, but so you can build it correctly too.

    1. 1

      Very good point! Within small dev teams, what is the typical "understand the customer" process? I'm curious where the overlaps are.

  4. 1

    Hi Sophia

    How did you get your first clients for your agency? Any tips?

    1. 2

      Hello! Referrals and Cold emails. :)

      But half of my referrals came from being helpful in the community on Twitter, not purely previous clients recommending me.